Stoning Major

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Stoning Major

Post by ghard on Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:27 pm

Looks like stoning has made a comeback in a big way. Running 14/15 tonight all deaths but one were stonings, 11 total.

Makes sense to get stoned on 14/15, but perhaps to far? I offer for your consideration.

My 2 cents.

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by Jude on Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:53 pm

I dialed the stoning factor back a bit last night.

That code is up next for a rewrite/update--I'll report back here when it is complete.

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by Jude on Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:08 am

Hi Glenn,

Could you possibly provide me with the following information for the victims of the stonings the other night? I'd like to know race, guild and con (with items) of the players that got stoned. Also, if you could provide an estimate of the tallied breakdown (i.e.how many stoning deaths per character) that would be helpful. I'm doing some calculations and I would like to use the info from your unfortunate evening to better tune the special attack equations. Sorry to ask you to relive it in gory detail! Surprised

-Jude

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by ghard on Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:32 am

Wow, i wish I could recall which got stoned.  I only tallied the total I am afraid.  I will say the wiz was only once and the Sork was by far the most (5 or 6 times for sork alone).  Wiz has the best def and sork the worst in party.

Con in party with items:
Scav - Morloch - 22
Wiz - Gnome - 25
Ninja - Troll - 26
Mage - Gnome - 24
Sork - Osiri - 25

btw I wanted to pose this question too, why does a n sork with the same equipment have a far worse def than g mage and g wiz?  Spin up a level 509 n osiri sork with no equipment.  Do the same with g gnome mage and wiz.

N Osiri sork with no equipment level 623 has a 232/232 att/def
G Gnome wiz with no equipment level 626 has a 228/293 att/def

N Dwarf healer looks to be similar to sork
G Gnome mage looks to be similar to wiz

I can only guess but it is like there is an advantage either to those guilds, or perhaps being gnome, or to having a g alignment.  I don't know what it is, just guessing. I would expect a slight variance based on the max stats available the the various races, but nothing like this.

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by musicman on Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:37 am

Hi,
Since this subject of defense on the Sorc. class has been broached again, I agree that there is a disparity here which bestows a distinct disadvantage to the sorc. class. Is there possibly something that has been overlooked in the attack/defense progression for the class?
I have run a mage & sorc together in many iterations of avatar and they had very close att/def scores (unmodified) once their max att/def was attained. This is also true of the healer class (low defense in comparison) Please help balance this inconsistency so that the sorc. & healer classes att/def score (defense especially) is more on a par with the mage. Thank you very much for your attention to this.

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by miger on Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:00 am

Sounds like a small mage advantage that offsets partially the powerful sorc and healer fight spells. Maybe it is nice that this game is not a duplicate of previous versions as some remember them.

Without the advantage of having played those previous versions, I find Javatar an exciting game as it exists and suspect some of those deviations could be challenge opportunities for you to find new solutions instead of seeking to apply old remedies. Give it a chance before modifying it to suit your preference.

Mike

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by dungeonmaster on Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:55 am

I agree whole heartedly with Mike. However-- at the top end a wiz/mage should not outshine the other two... because the game data will become skewed. I will make some time to investigate this (as I can) --

Wiz should earn defense faster, but that doesn't mean his end total should be significantly more than a sorc.
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Re: Stoning Major

Post by Jude on Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:24 am

I think the DM has hit on the distinction here.. the help lesson lists a few guilds (Mage, Sorc, healer, wiz, seeker) as getting extra defense, all with various pluses and minuses. The help lesson also indicates that the pluses and minuses indicate the 'rate' at which those skills are achieved.

I think our code is interpreting the pluses and minuses as 'how much' extra defense is being achieved, rather than 'how fast' it is being achieved. According to the help lesson though, Sorc would outpace Mage.. so maybe the data in the game engine is inconsistent with what is displayed in the help lesson.

At any rate, an adjustment is in order. Is the consensus that Wiz is topping out at the right defense and the others need to be brought in line? Does anyone have any hard numbers from historical versions on what would be expected in terms of cumulative extra defense and how fast it should be added to the various guilds that receive it?


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Re: Stoning Major

Post by musicman on Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:07 pm

Wizard always had a bit higher (what %, I never calculated) defense than the mage, sorc, and healer classes, but the latter three ended up being about equal in defense once their att/def stopped increasing (lvl 370-380). Anyone else?

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by ghard on Fri Aug 19, 2016 12:36 pm

I looked at each of the caster guilds a max char in each (in both cyber1 versions), 45 points of extra defense is what all casters get.  What varies is the speed with which they attain the extra defense as Jude pointed out.

I would suggest 45 points of extra defense for all caster guilds at max of the extra defense for the guild.

Mike, I don't offer a preference. I share the stated goal that 84 is a good benchmark to set things for balance (that version has lots of play testing to get the balance). Obviously from there Jude and JPA will do what they see fit, as a DM does.

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Re: Stoning Major

Post by Jude on Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:49 pm

Ok, the wiz/sorc/mage/healer/seeker extra defense progression has been brought in line with what I originally intended. Two things were amiss:

1. As I mentioned before, the +++ to --- range for extra defense was being used to determine the amount, rather than the rate at which defense was achieved. This has been rectified.. Wizards get it quicker, but they all get the same in the end.

2. Sorcerers and Healers were really getting screwed over, because of bad data. To top it off, my new Windows X was playing whack a mole with the data, reverting to the bad data every now and then because of permissions weirdness. Anyway, those two guilds now have their extra defense straightened out.

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